Seeing Paul conflicted between “going on living in the body or departing and being with Christ” is confusing for me, and here’s why. Whether Paul lived and continued his teachings or whether Paul died a martyr, was in God’s hands, right? I am struggling with his belief (?) that it was his choice. Is Paul posing these questions rhetorically or literally? Am I overthinking this?
You’re not overthinking it at all! I think Paul would totally agree with you that his “fate” is in God’s hands. This is one of those passages where we see Paul being introspective. I would characterize it more as Paul wrestling with what the outcome might be, and doing so on display for the Philippians, who may also be facing similar outcomes in their own situation. Does that help, bfurrer? Thanks for the great thought and question.
Yep, I tend to be pretty literal so my thought process was getting stuck on Paul’s conflict re: living or dying. After sleeping on it and listening to the service today and watching Greg and Anthony’s Zoom call……I have a better understanding of Paul’s statement about having “joy in God’s faith”.
That is what I heard in Anthony’s voice and his powerful words. Anthony opened my eyes to a perspective of going for the “long game” and living that long game during these turbulent times. That is really what Paul was saying. While it might have been really inticing to call it a day and to be with Christ in heaven; Paul knew that his mission was here. Thank you God for giving him that faith, trust and joy. Paul wrote some incredibly powerful letters after he wrote Philippians – we are blessed that he was able to continue to help us all grow in the joy of Christ.
And thank you God for giving Anthony the faith and trust and joy to be in this for the long game. We need his voice so badly. I hope Anthony knows that God is so clearly working through him and teaching all of us that we must “hate evil; love good; maintain justice. Even if it means losing friends or family who don’t share the same values.
God bless you all at the Crossing for giving us this platform and this opportunity to be closer to each other and closer to our God. Thank you.
I’ve started late. But I think Paul hhad a real struggle between life and death.i believe that he was accepted going to be with with God or if God wanted him to stay and finish his work
I believe he is confused if he should or shouldn’t live in the body of christ. On one hand he believes christ will be exaltedwheather he live by life or death
Thanks Nancy! Yes, I think Paul is conveying a struggle in his thoughts to the Philippians… but in classic Paul fashion, it is for their benefit. As in, he is inviting them (and all of us) to struggle with the same thoughts.
Tim, Angela and Ben, thank you so much for this study. I hope we continue this type of thing when we all return to community. The study has been a blessing for me. As we sit here in an increasingly difficult time, Paul’s words inspire me to think more how I can live Christ. It is a challenge but I am focusing on ways to day that each day. I personally struggle more with to die is gain. I know that is true and our faith. However, I still fear death and the unknown. I am working on that and hope to have at least a portion of Paul’s faith in the next life with Christ.
Dan, thanks so much for being a part of this and sharing your thoughts! I’m with you… Paul’s confidence in his faith is strong. I keep working and praying that I’ll grow in this confidence. But at the same time I have hope that what he is saying is true, regardless of my wavering.
Thank you for taking the time to post this video Tim. I have wondered if Paul was feeling the ache and groaning of life here? Meaning, the longer he lived and saw the difficulty of the human condition, was he ultimately trying to help shift our perspective back to Christ and away from struggle and suffering. Like he was saying, hey, you win either way if you can see it like me. Seems easy enough but the deeper I get into this book, there are more and more layers.
That a good thought Laurie. As we discuss in service, the Kingdom starts here on Earth but without a focus on Christ and the hope it brings, I am vulnerable to the despair that struggle and suffering can bring. Really liked the focus Tim put on how this reads in the Greek I believe. To Live?! Christ!
EXPLORING THE BIBLE
Tim,
I appreciate how you broke that down and reminded us that we really do have work left to do. People left to love. People to be kind to.
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Thanks Mel. It’s a high calling to follow Jesus. But worth it!
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Seeing Paul conflicted between “going on living in the body or departing and being with Christ” is confusing for me, and here’s why. Whether Paul lived and continued his teachings or whether Paul died a martyr, was in God’s hands, right? I am struggling with his belief (?) that it was his choice. Is Paul posing these questions rhetorically or literally? Am I overthinking this?
LikeLike
You’re not overthinking it at all! I think Paul would totally agree with you that his “fate” is in God’s hands. This is one of those passages where we see Paul being introspective. I would characterize it more as Paul wrestling with what the outcome might be, and doing so on display for the Philippians, who may also be facing similar outcomes in their own situation. Does that help, bfurrer? Thanks for the great thought and question.
LikeLike
Yep, I tend to be pretty literal so my thought process was getting stuck on Paul’s conflict re: living or dying. After sleeping on it and listening to the service today and watching Greg and Anthony’s Zoom call……I have a better understanding of Paul’s statement about having “joy in God’s faith”.
That is what I heard in Anthony’s voice and his powerful words. Anthony opened my eyes to a perspective of going for the “long game” and living that long game during these turbulent times. That is really what Paul was saying. While it might have been really inticing to call it a day and to be with Christ in heaven; Paul knew that his mission was here. Thank you God for giving him that faith, trust and joy. Paul wrote some incredibly powerful letters after he wrote Philippians – we are blessed that he was able to continue to help us all grow in the joy of Christ.
And thank you God for giving Anthony the faith and trust and joy to be in this for the long game. We need his voice so badly. I hope Anthony knows that God is so clearly working through him and teaching all of us that we must “hate evil; love good; maintain justice. Even if it means losing friends or family who don’t share the same values.
God bless you all at the Crossing for giving us this platform and this opportunity to be closer to each other and closer to our God. Thank you.
LikeLike
I’ve started late. But I think Paul hhad a real struggle between life and death.i believe that he was accepted going to be with with God or if God wanted him to stay and finish his work
LikeLike
I believe he is confused if he should or shouldn’t live in the body of christ. On one hand he believes christ will be exaltedwheather he live by life or death
LikeLike
Thanks Nancy! Yes, I think Paul is conveying a struggle in his thoughts to the Philippians… but in classic Paul fashion, it is for their benefit. As in, he is inviting them (and all of us) to struggle with the same thoughts.
LikeLike
Tim, Angela and Ben, thank you so much for this study. I hope we continue this type of thing when we all return to community. The study has been a blessing for me. As we sit here in an increasingly difficult time, Paul’s words inspire me to think more how I can live Christ. It is a challenge but I am focusing on ways to day that each day. I personally struggle more with to die is gain. I know that is true and our faith. However, I still fear death and the unknown. I am working on that and hope to have at least a portion of Paul’s faith in the next life with Christ.
LikeLike
Dan, thanks so much for being a part of this and sharing your thoughts! I’m with you… Paul’s confidence in his faith is strong. I keep working and praying that I’ll grow in this confidence. But at the same time I have hope that what he is saying is true, regardless of my wavering.
LikeLike
Thank you for taking the time to post this video Tim. I have wondered if Paul was feeling the ache and groaning of life here? Meaning, the longer he lived and saw the difficulty of the human condition, was he ultimately trying to help shift our perspective back to Christ and away from struggle and suffering. Like he was saying, hey, you win either way if you can see it like me. Seems easy enough but the deeper I get into this book, there are more and more layers.
LikeLike
That a good thought Laurie. As we discuss in service, the Kingdom starts here on Earth but without a focus on Christ and the hope it brings, I am vulnerable to the despair that struggle and suffering can bring. Really liked the focus Tim put on how this reads in the Greek I believe. To Live?! Christ!
LikeLike